A warning to everyone using Reverbnation
June 2, 2009
Before I continue, I must stress that usually I adore Reverbnation and all of their wonderful tools and tips. Unfortunately the issue I’m about to describe has soured our relationship.
I went to send out the monthly newsletter on Sunday. Usually I have most people set up on a Gmail filter and I work from that, but some of my fans come from Reverbnation and have signed up through FanReach. So for them, I do a copy of the newsletter and send it out using the FanReach tool, as when people signup, I don’t get access to their email address. April’s newsletter was fine going out this way, but on May’s, I got a pop-up screen telling me that I have to add my ACTUAL PHYSICAL ADDRESS at the bottom. So I do this, imagining that it will be hidden on the final email.
It’s not.
Reverbnation have implemented a new rule that means that to use the FanReach tool, you must be prepared to put your actual address on an email to people who may or may not be strangers. There is no option to hide your address. You may, if you have one, use a PO box or a label address, but given many of us are unsigned, that’s not practical or possible. You may lie about your address, but this puts you in the position of having to lie to your fans, which I find extremely objectionable.
I emailed Reverbnation and they informed me that there is nothing they can do, they are obliged by law to do this because of the Internet Can Spam Act to prevent spam and so that people have the option to contact an artist physically by snail mail if there is an issue or to unsubscribe.
I argue that there are flaws in the design, namely that:
* The fans email address is never revealed to the artist, so there is no risk of spamming. In any case, bots can always work around such issues and frequently do.
* Fans can simply click to leave FanReach for a given artist.
* The Act in question has actually been around since 2003 and is in no way recent legislation
* It would be a simple matter for Reverbnation to require a physical address on joining and then keep it hidden, and implement a “contact me” button for fans to use.
In short, I am dismayed and upset that I can no longer use such a useful tool. And also, I now can’t send mailouts to those of my fans using FanReach. If you are one of those fans, please drop me an email on caseewilsonmusic@googlemail.com with your email address and I’ll add you to the main list. I promise not to spam you.
Casee, we totally empathize with your desire to NOT provide a valid mailing address. But it is required by CAN SPAM act of 2003 (updated recently in 2008). Any credible email service is going to require it (beware any that don’t b/c their emails may not be CAN SPAM compliant and could lower your delivery rates).
Here is an excerpt from an article about the 2008 update located here:
http://www.listrak.com/university/CAN-SPAM/
“The CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 stated emails must contain:
* An opt-out feature that allows recipients to unsubscribe through an opt-out button or by replying to the message which is sent to a valid, monitored mailbox
* The physical address of the mailer
* A valid, non-deceptive subject line and header (routing) information
* A warning label if the email contains adult content”
I wish it were different, but unfortunately its the way it is for everyone.
-Jed Carlson
Co-Founder
ReverbNation.com
Thank you for responding. I’m aware of the wording of the Can Spam Act. I’d like to draw your attention to several things.
Firstly, in providing a mail service such as you provide, it would make more sense for you to provide an address, as you are better equipped as a business than a lot of unsigned musicians are to give such information. A system such as that used by googlemail would be appropriate. Asking potentially vulnerable people to give out personal information is NOT appropriate, and the explanations given on your site are sketchy at best.
Secondly, a member of your staff told me, and I quote: “You can literally put any physical address you would like in there”. So how exactly does this protect the fans if people can enter “123 Street Street, Town, City”?
Thirdly, Can Spam refers to commercial ventures. I appreciate the one rule for all stance, but it’s simply not practical for every unsigned musician to get signed, or to get a PO box. It’s very expensive. There are other ways of managing this through your own site, using your address, but of course that would be more work for you. If you are not prepared to be flexible given the slightly different nature of this situation to that of say Tescos, or Amazon, then you will lose people, and by droves, who do not wish to reveal their home addresses and have no other option.
I appreciate that you are following the law, but this does mean that I will not be using the FanReach system again, and I won’t be positively promoting to anyone else unless I know that they have an address that they can safely use. The safety of the artist is also something that you as a company should be taking into account.
Sorry the can spam is directed at any organization that operates a mailing list. In this way musicians get counted as professionals.
I actually am quite upset about this myself as my upcoming E-Courses also will fall into this even though at the end of the Course their E-Mail address is removed from any and all lists. Looking over a few more details about his before Friday.
You make very fair points. Using a commercial email service may not be the best choice for all Artists. That is absolutely true.
It really comes down to list size and mailing frequency. For Artists with smaller fan lists, using a non-commercial service like gmail is a viable alternative, provided that you don’t need to send graphically intensive html (I don’t think gmail supports pasting in html).
But for Artists whose lists exceed 500 fans (don’t quote me on that exactly, but I think that is the daily send limit from gmail), or who don’t want to send text-only messages, a commercial email service is probably the only route that makes sense. And if you are going to use a commercial service, you are going to be required by law to provide a physical mailing address.
I realize that having to provide an address makes you (and probably others) uncomfortable. I can appreciate that feeling in the day and age we live in. But there is little that we can do without stepping outside the boundaries of the law.
Whatever route you choose to go with your email, I wish you all the best. We understand how challenging it is to make a go as an unsigned Artist.
Best,
Jed
Use the address for ReverbNation. Since they are the ones holding the info, they are the ones who’s address needs to be listed. When someone writes them a letter stating to be removed from the list, they can remove them. Nobody is lying to the fan and the address is listed.
Wow.. this is ridiculous. Someone needs to take this to court. People shouldn’t be giving their addresses to strangers… At least take it off Reverbnation! People from ANYWHERE can add bands on reverbnation. That puts them in danger!
@shadow,
your address is NOT available to anyone who visits ReverbNation.com, simply because you signed your band up for the site.
This only applies to the ‘footer’ of emails that a Band chooses to send out via our paid email service, FanReach. If a Band does not use our email service to send newsletters to fans, then no physical address is required. i.e. we don’t even ask for a physical address from bands unless they activate and pay for the premium service FanReach.
This law is applied by ReverbNation the same way it is applied by ANY paid commercial email service like constant contact.
Many Artists choose to use a P.O. box setup for the band, or a manager’s address, etc. That is up to the band.
But a physical address is required for the actual email sender (not the email service provider) in order to fully comply with the law.
As I have said before, for many bands using a free email service provider is a good solution, like gmail.
But once you venture into sending ‘commercial’ email with our service (or any other), you have to comply with the law. Its just the way it is, and ReverbNation complies with all laws to ensure that Artists are as well.
It’s CanSpam Act and that’s it. Better to find some representation who sign off on your material or they send on your behalf. If you’re worried about fans mobbing you, I’d find a press manager.
Using gmail is spammy.. and could effect your performance. It is probably better to get people to sign up to your livejournal updates or website and promote via this channel.
I’d recommend WordPress and promote using RSS igoogle, twitter and blog subscription based services. They are easier to implement.
The other is to try and get a contra deal with your studio or rehearsal studio. Maybe you could use their address for an advert from them [using the 80:20 rules].
Be creative, but be legal!
[...] However, if you’re a solo artist I’d recommend representation or some way to not put in your home address [telling robbers where to get hold of your kit while you're out gigging]. Read here [...]
Hello Jed Carlson
Your guy there named
Andrew
stated
Kelly,
We will automatically bill you for the service after the free trial period
ends to whatever payment method you originally used to set-up the free
trial
I want out. I did not submit a payment method after a free trial
I did not even know this was a “trial.” Let alone it being a free trial
I thought you offered a free service with “add ons” that you charge for.
I did not promise to pay you, did not see a “trial period
when” I began using your service.
I want out.
I feel you are deceptive in your sales practices.
your instructions to cancel this “Trial Period” are not complete. or accurate.
I cannot find the “Unsubscribe link” you mention in your instructions.
I followed this path
Control Room > Home > Manage Premium Services and clicking the
‘Unsubscribe’ link.
But there was no unsuscribe link unless it is in super small print or
something equally evasive.
I want out and do not want you to bill me for anything I did not sign up for.
Please advise as to how I can cancell this before your” Trial Period
2 things:
#1, you can, and probably should, get a PO box for this purpose.
#2 Reverbnation could, and probably should, provide a limited mail forwarding service for this purprose for their customers. I imagine that you could even charge a small fee…
Rob
@Jed Carlson
This is not exactly true, its not just the premium package, its the free fan reach as well, and if we choose not to use fan reach, then we are ineligible for those little trickling pennies that is fair share
They’ve screwed me too.
For 2 weeks I have been unable to send the E-blast through FanReach a service I PAY FOR.
For 2 weeks I have gotten NO CUSTOMER SERVICE.
They answered my 25th call today after I pressed #2 for licensing instead of #1 for CS.
I told them as soon as I had the problem.
Neil says it’s nothing they can fix. Pushes me off to this JBoner guy who wants me to sign up with a meeting service to talk about their problem.
EXCUSE THE F OUTTA ME. I’M PAYIN FOR A SERVICE IT SHOULD WORK!
It should not cost me time, money, and frustration like this.
Then, They are legally obligated to ether refund your money, or give credit for time paid for and didn’t work, or they owe your credit for they time you lost. They will probably attempt to basically just ask you to forgive it but I wouldn’t. They are legally BOUND by being paid for this service
(Continued)
And most important: If they are improperly handling CS then they open themselves to legal action
Hi Chris
Just an FYI here, not sure how this is popping up on our radar a year later, but Mr.Porter’s issue was solved on September 9, 2010, and he was also refunded for one month’s service. Just wanted that to be clear that we were in communication with him that whole time and trying to replicate his issue to solve it for him and any other user that would be experiencing it.
This would seem to be a deterrent for collecting fare-share, as I have just activated the mentioned recently and found other such deterrents as well. Here is a great question about that. Why do I need actual plays in order to be eligible when RN gets paid every time a page is displayed and an ad is applied to the screen and yet I must have fan reach activated, constant traffic, constant plays and then and only then if RN feels in a good mood, I get a couple pennies. Why is this and is this not false advertising to infer this is a fair share? Fair maybe opinionated, but there are legal bounds to even this sort of loose use of language